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Shawn Kitchen
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PostPosted: Fri 5:30, 19 Nov 2010 Back to top

Hello Dariusz, and all. (can't hardly believe there is only 14 members!!!) First off, I think the info that you have put up is just incredible. I started playing golf in late 1991, got my first handicap in spring 92 (25) got it down to 8 by the end of the season (handicap season) I was even encouraged to buy Mr. Hogan's book 5 lessons, which I read, but didn't/ couldn't digest all the info. Played my way down to a +4 w/stroke avg. of 70.1 but my home course was a pitch and putt and I knew where to hit it, anyway, my GIR were never that good, I could get on a roll, but i was just grooving what I was doing, my swing was by no means tech. sound. Fast forward to Sept 25 2010. Church scramble golf tournament, I haven't played golf but about once a year for the last 5 yrs. (got married in Nov 2003 and had our first child in Dec 2004, we now have 3!) Played okay in the tournament hits some really good shots but hit some REALLY bad ones too. had a lot of fun and my wife says "you should see how good you can get" I think wow! okay. so, I have been watching Mr. hogan swing for about 1 1/2 months now and came across your website just last week on the biokentic grip, fasinating stuff, all your research. It baffles me why some of the tour players are not trying to copy what he was doing. Sorry for the long intro. My question is the feet. Would you share w/us the pressure points for the feet in the swing at different stages, I really liked what you did w/hips diagram, that helped me out alot. I don't get to play that much but I am swinging inside alot and do video my swing and try to get to the range once a week, it seems to help limiting the amount of balls that I hit so I can work on the correct movements first. I am staying w/Mr. Hogan's methods! Biokenetics, SPC. Thanks Shawn
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Fri 22:18, 19 Nov 2010 Back to top

Shawn Kitchen wrote:
Hello Dariusz, and all. (can't hardly believe there is only 14 members!!!) First off, I think the info that you have put up is just incredible. I started playing golf in late 1991, got my first handicap in spring 92 (25) got it down to 8 by the end of the season (handicap season) I was even encouraged to buy Mr. Hogan's book 5 lessons, which I read, but didn't/ couldn't digest all the info. Played my way down to a +4 w/stroke avg. of 70.1 but my home course was a pitch and putt and I knew where to hit it, anyway, my GIR were never that good, I could get on a roll, but i was just grooving what I was doing, my swing was by no means tech. sound. Fast forward to Sept 25 2010. Church scramble golf tournament, I haven't played golf but about once a year for the last 5 yrs. (got married in Nov 2003 and had our first child in Dec 2004, we now have 3!) Played okay in the tournament hits some really good shots but hit some REALLY bad ones too. had a lot of fun and my wife says "you should see how good you can get" I think wow! okay. so, I have been watching Mr. hogan swing for about 1 1/2 months now and came across your website just last week on the biokentic grip, fasinating stuff, all your research. It baffles me why some of the tour players are not trying to copy what he was doing. Sorry for the long intro. My question is the feet. Would you share w/us the pressure points for the feet in the swing at different stages, I really liked what you did w/hips diagram, that helped me out alot. I don't get to play that much but I am swinging inside alot and do video my swing and try to get to the range once a week, it seems to help limiting the amount of balls that I hit so I can work on the correct movements first. I am staying w/Mr. Hogan's methods! Biokenetics, SPC. Thanks Shawn


Hello Shawn and welcome to the forum. It's a great news that we have another great player here !
First, thank you very much for kind words. I am very honoured that my concepts - that are aimed at hackers - can be useful for scratch and better players like yourself. Great honour.
Secondly, trying to answer why this forum is so small and not very popular (although I know that some loud net names are lurking here from time to time) - well, I honestly believe that there must be another generation to get into biokinetics since this one is hard to be convinced (in general, since exceptions occur) to accept the fact that 60 or 80% of current golf instruction is garbage. What's funny here - these same people are perfectly aware that the average HCP did not drop since the 2nd WW. Confusing, isn't it ? Smile
Last but not least - I really loved your intro that shows how tough is the life of an avid golfer. I loved to hear that there are good people for whom golf is very important but pales in front of other priorities. I would like to wish all that these priorities are only merry ones, as in case of Shawn.

Pressure points at different stages of the motion - great idea and it's the second time I aware that I forgot about something important. Thank you for mentioning it. I will do my best to prepare something in the first turn when I finish Hogan's Masters YT series.

Cheers
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Shawn Kitchen
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PostPosted: Sat 0:20, 20 Nov 2010 Back to top

Dariusz, thanks for the reply. I will be waiting for your info. Would you tell me more about the Hogan's masters YT series? I have friends that are very good golfers as well and they tell me to look at the "modern" teachers. NO thanks, I see what Mr. Hogan was able to accomplish w/all he had going against him physically. "Too flat" they say. "Whatever" is what I say. It's very clear that the man discovered some powerful truths. I am very excited to put these principles under some tournament stress and see what happens. I have about 5 months until local tournaments start, I will keeping working on these principles piece by piece and bit by bit until I get them nailed down, I am excited to see what happens. I really think this will be good. Thanks Shawn
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Sat 2:20, 20 Nov 2010 Back to top

Shawn, you can see the up-to-now YT Hogan's Masters work here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg7Gr-93IRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGIZ2HaHhn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24mFfHyqa4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2XVoGQ9_6Q

Focus on what they could have taught Hogan just by observing their motion - and compare with my findings described below each vid. I would be pleased to add your comments there when you find something substantial from the perspective of a real player.

Cheers

P.S. Tell your friends that they are just fooled by today's instruction. Ask them what "flat" means. Ask them if one's swing plane can be ever called "flat" while all molecules of the body moves perpendicularily to the spine while being angled properly to the ball.
This is one of the horrible stupidity of golf instruction. They use notions they are not able to use properly. "Being flat" symbolizes an error only - e.g. your spine is too upright and your arms match it - the entire system is too flat and requires compensation.
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Shawn Kitchen
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PostPosted: Sat 6:14, 20 Nov 2010 Back to top

dariusz wrote:
Shawn, you can see the up-to-now YT Hogan's Masters work here:


Focus on what they could have taught Hogan just by observing their motion - and compare with my findings described below each vid. I would be pleased to add your comments there when you find something substantial from the perspective of a real player.

Cheers

P.S. Tell your friends that they are just fooled by today's instruction. Ask them what "flat" means. Ask them if one's swing plane can be ever called "flat" while all molecules of the body moves perpendicularily to the spine while being angled properly to the ball.
This is one of the horrible stupidity of golf instruction. They use notions they are not able to use properly. "Being flat" symbolizes an error only - e.g. your spine is too upright and your arms match it - the entire system is too flat and requires compensation.
I already think my friends are just wasting their time chasing things modern teachers are putting out there, it just doesn't make sense. I sure didn't claim to know a whole lot about the golf swing before I took the game back up 2 months ago, I really just would swing the club by feel and make changes based on trial and error because of ball flight.(cause and effect) There is more than one way to do something that is for sure. Coming back to the game in a serious way after a 5year absence, I figured since I will basically be starting over why not study up and make things proper, (not just band-aid things so to speak) I am not looking for great golf shots when I do evertything perfect, I am looking for golf shots that are real good when I don't do everything perfect, does that make sense to you? Tightening up the tolerences I guess you would say. The modern teachers.... I heard a guy say one time "sometimes you gotta eat the hay and spit out the sticks" west texas talk for lots of info out there some is good, some is really bad! I enjoy our visits, Thanks Shawn. By the way, I am having a problem with getting taller right at impact, which brought me to the pressure points in the feet, seems like maybe I don't have the proper hip movement yet, I notice Mr. Hogan would finish w/both knees close together, while mine are a good ways apart. Ideas? I had watched some of your vids on Hogan's Masters, very interesting, I saw many similarities. Shawn
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Sat 14:14, 20 Nov 2010 Back to top

Shawn Kitchen wrote:
By the way, I am having a problem with getting taller right at impact, which brought me to the pressure points in the feet, seems like maybe I don't have the proper hip movement yet, I notice Mr. Hogan would finish w/both knees close together, while mine are a good ways apart. Ideas?


Shawn, your analysis is very correct. Most probably you are a victim of the so-called losing of the tush line which happens due to the biokinetically inefficient hip joints' motion. Look at this post addressed to another member of the BGST forum:

http://www.biokineticgolfswing.fora.pl/bgst-general-discussions,1/tush-line-help,11.html

As mentioned, swing motion is always being built from the ground up, therefore, your assumptions about the importance of the impact of one's feetwork and one's stance in general are correct. I'd start to experiment with the diagonal stance, even the most extreme examples, and see what happens and if you feel your feet differently. The stance where you feel the most support ground forces would be the most effective one usually.

Cheers
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Shawn Kitchen
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PostPosted: Sat 15:53, 20 Nov 2010 Back to top

Dariusz, funny you should say experiment w/extreme measures of the DS, after watching some video last night, I saw where my hips were not as open at address as I thought they were, not to mention my right foot not being pulled back far enough. Seeing those two things I made some extreme corrections to see what it would feel like...... presto!, seems to be helping, I can feel alot of tension, resistance. I can only imagine what people will be thinking when they see me address the ball in golf tournaments, HA HA! . I really like your intro desription about biokenectic motion, not trying to force your body into posistion, but to get them preset at address and get things started and just "let it happen"..... brilliant. I will still be experimenting w/it. One other question, have you talked w/anybody about a "blacking out" (maybe closing eyes?) at the top of the BS or right before impact? Seems like I have to make a real concentrated effort to keep my eyes open, or focused on the ball, but after a few shots I am back to not looking, or "blacking out" .... thoughts? Thanks Shawn
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Sat 16:50, 20 Nov 2010 Back to top

That's the point, Shawn. To prepare everything that can be during set up, so that the very motion is thoughtless. Benefitting from the theory of using natural limitations is huge as well in a considerable limiting of options to spoil the correct cascade of mechanical events. I hate to sound like a smart ass but I cannot imagine a better scenario for automating the motion than this.

As regards your question - no, I have not asked this specific question to the ophtalmology expert. However, I have read in Harvey Penick's 'Little Red Book' that very rarely golfers can see everything during so fast an action. Even Hogan was losing the ball somewhere in the downswing. I would not worry about it.

Cheers
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Shawn Kitchen
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PostPosted: Sat 16:55, 20 Nov 2010 Back to top

dariusz wrote:
I hate to sound like a smart ass but I cannot imagine a better scenario for automating the motion than this.

As regards your question - no, I have not asked this specific question to the ophtalmology expert. However, I have read in Harvey Penick's 'Little Red Book' that very rarely golfers can see everything during so fast an action. Even Hogan was losing the ball somewhere in the downswing. I would not worry about it.

Cheers
You are surely not sounding arrogant to me, makes perfect sense, 2+2=4 yes? I had forgotten about Harvey Penick saying that. Thanks, Shawn
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Sun 22:03, 21 Nov 2010 Back to top

Shawn, I have already uploaded the feet pressure points material. Again, many thanks for the suggestion Exclamation

[link widoczny dla zalogowanych]

Cheers
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Shawn Kitchen
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PostPosted: Sun 23:39, 21 Nov 2010 Back to top

Dariusz, your work looks great, lots of great ideas getting the pressure points in visual format. I just got back from the range. I am getting the tush line to stay back better, but (no pun intended), still needs work. My old swing was w/alot of casting, but I could still hit it good and fairly long, (280 carry w/driver) now that I am getting into better posistions, my muscles are still trying to do things the old(read wrong) way. The ball every once in a while will do just what I want, but mostly high and right, too much loft at impact, I know that I am not establishing a EEP and that is what I will be working on next. Your thoughts/suggestions are always welcomed. Thanks Shawn
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Shawn Kitchen
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PostPosted: Mon 20:18, 22 Nov 2010 Back to top

Dariusz, I was thinking about the pressure points, I like what you did w/the diagrams. What do you think about adding to it w/a map, or a dynamic trail, like a map that has a start and a finish? You have already shown the "checkpoints" or "points of interest". Just a thought. Thanks Shawn
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Mon 22:22, 22 Nov 2010 Back to top

Shawn Kitchen wrote:
Dariusz, I was thinking about the pressure points, I like what you did w/the diagrams. What do you think about adding to it w/a map, or a dynamic trail, like a map that has a start and a finish? You have already shown the "checkpoints" or "points of interest". Just a thought. Thanks Shawn


Lovely idea, Shawn - but by means of what tools should I do it ? I would need a professional computer programme in order to make it look well, I guess... Rolling Eyes

Cheers
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