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GolfZoner
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PostPosted: Sun 14:05, 05 Dec 2010 Back to top

Without sounding too patronizing - amazing stuff Dariucz.
One of the most difficult moves I am grappling with is Hogan's transitional move from the backswing to the downswing. As you rightly state Hogan moves his hip laterally toward the target as he is completeing his back swing. A very difficult move for me to accomplish and get my head around, he also maintains the lag in the club around hip level on the downswing( exceptionally).
Can you please elaborate and possibly help with the explain how this can be achieved.
Thanks.
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Sun 15:20, 05 Dec 2010 Back to top

Hello, John. Welcome to the Forum and thanks for your kind words.

I am of the opinion that Hogan's transition mechanics demands a sequentiality of the events in the motion starting from the ground up (as per the SPC concept Arrow [link widoczny dla zalogowanych]). It means that it is heavily dependent on benefitting from ground forces (mainly horizontally but also vertically oriented forces Arrow [link widoczny dla zalogowanych]).
Now, the crucial thing is to set the joints of the rear side of the body at setup the way it will ensure an automatic reaction to overtortques in these joints. This automatic reaction (automatic in the sense there are no other options left) forces the CoG to shift laterally targetwise, like bouncing off an invisible wall that the firm rear side creates. Lastly, as the firm rear side is being built sequentially from the ground up, parts of the body being closer to the ground start the transition earlier.
This is, more or less, the essence of how e.g. Hogan moved his pelvis laterally toward the target before he had completed his back swing with his upper body. We need to remember then that the pelvic area shift causes rotation naturally (when there is no more room for linear shift, the rotation must start). The consequences of it are serious: the sooner the dynamic weight goes to the lead side and establishes there = the sooner the downswing axis is created = the sooner the pure rotation phase can start = the better for dynamics, consistency and repeatability for obvious reasons.

So, reasumming, what a golfer needs is to setup properly, to start the swing properly and a good contact between feet and ground. The rest are just biophysics. Of course it needs some free time for experiments (all of us are the same in macroscale but not in microscale) but when it click you won't be looking back. Cool
As I said in a PM to one my friends from the SITD site - I remember how I felt the first time I abandoned classic concept and used diagonal stance + presets. This day I told myself I know why the average HCP cannot drop down and how poor are people spending money on useless instruction and gadgets buying either placebo effects or info how to try to go against physics and anatomy.

Cheers
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GolfZoner
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PostPosted: Mon 3:56, 06 Dec 2010 Back to top

Thanks Dariusz, it is great to be part of this incredible forum. This digital age is truley remarkable. I started golf at 40years, and got down to 7 through several years of hard work and ignorance. I read plenty of books, watched plenty of video's and knew I was not hitting the ball with much compression. I love the game so much I even produce and host my own golf show on community T.V. here in Australia.
I came across countless golf pro's an ended up going to see a fellow that had me put most of my weight on the left side, this ruined my short game bunker play and in the end confidence.

I knew that I had the ability, fitness and intelligence to to play this game with a resemblance of a decent golfer, but I searched everywhere for the magic bullet. Well I am here and have never understood the swing so well - thank you.

Back to this wonderful digital age, as you have so much quality information, I found it a challenge to comprehend it all so I copied your text into my Kindle which also has voice function to read the text; a very effective way to digets the content. I also recorded the voice text to my IRiver (MP3) Payer so I can rewind if required.

I hope some of the above can be of help to others and a huge THANKS for your work.
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Mon 12:05, 06 Dec 2010 Back to top

John, take into account, please, that my English is not perfect and I am surely making errors in both grammar as well as vocabulary. If something is not clear, let me know and I'll do my best to say it with other words.

Cheers

P.S. Yes, the digital age is wonderful for communication purposes.
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GolfZoner
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PostPosted: Mon 13:06, 06 Dec 2010 Back to top

Dairusz, I was not inferring about your English grammar, to the contrary. I was alluding to the fact that you had so much valuable written content it was a lot of work for me to comprehend it all. This is why I have downloaded all your written material to my Kindle; I am so impressed how well it is written and how few errors there are. It is superbly worded and contructed, an amazing body of work.
The kindle voice reader just helps me with comprehension and allows me to listen or read your work anywhere and at anytime.
To reiterate to have this masterpiece available at no cost is a credit to your passion.

Thanks again
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Mon 14:29, 06 Dec 2010 Back to top

John, I am very humbled and honoured by your words. Thank you very much.

Cheers
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Shawn Kitchen
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PostPosted: Mon 18:01, 06 Dec 2010 Back to top

Dariusz, to piggyback on this, I am having the same issue, it is also a tush line issue, right? Does the transition have anything to do w/a drop or dip, starting or during the BS? seems this is the only way I can keep my tush line, and it seems to help w/transition. I have noticed Mr. Hogan's head would drop quite a bit, (maybe as much as 3 inches? ) in the down swing, while his tush line would increase at the same time, making more room. Thanks Shawn
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Mon 18:30, 06 Dec 2010 Back to top

Shawn Kitchen wrote:
Dariusz, to piggyback on this, I am having the same issue, it is also a tush line issue, right? Does the transition have anything to do w/a drop or dip, starting or during the BS? seems this is the only way I can keep my tush line, and it seems to help w/transition. I have noticed Mr. Hogan's head would drop quite a bit, (maybe as much as 3 inches? ) in the down swing, while his tush line would increase at the same time, making more room. Thanks Shawn


The head 'dip' is a symptom of using the vertically oriented forces (flexion-extension cycles). However, it is not a conscious action in any case and it never should be because it would be like opening the door for timing issues. Certainly, it helps with maintaining or even increasing the tush line.
However, the main reason it happens is the fact we are bipeds. The CoG comes linearily to the lead side which lowers significaltly during the backswing phase and the levelling of the hips occur whithout changing of the bent of the lead leg.
Now, according to my observations, the more is the linear shift to the S-W direction (assuming we're facing North at address and the target is located to the West) the better are conditions to maintain/increase the tush line.

Cheers
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GolfZoner
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PostPosted: Mon 21:43, 06 Dec 2010 Back to top

Hello Dariusz, working very hard on the narrowness in my take away and thanks for the suggestions. I have video'd my swing several times again on what I thought was maintaining the lag with a forward press from the right knee and it is amazing how much more work I have to do but there are improvements. Together with the correct pressure points and correct transition really does help keep the width. Just a matter of putting it all together, which I am sure I can accomplish but it sure helps when you have a definitive and sound direction.

Thanks
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Mon 22:46, 06 Dec 2010 Back to top

Sounds good, John. I'd love to see your action when you're ready Smile

Cheers
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GolfZoner
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PostPosted: Tue 11:02, 07 Dec 2010 Back to top

Thanks for your interst Dariusz, yep I sure will send you a video when I get closer. I re read all your stuff today, the more I read; all I can say what an amazing body work. Believe me it will be recognized for what it is before long.

With my issue I am really virtually starting over. I am not sure how long it is going to take and I welcome your suggestions, but as I have alluded I was suck on the left leg for years with all bottom half weight on the left and the top half tilted to the right - what my teacher called right sided golf. And to reiterate, all I did move my arms and pick up the club; with no width and pick up the club weight transfer, so this technology may take some time.

I am hitting a practice ball attached to an arm on a small platform in my back yard and taping virtually every shot.

You are 100% right in your reply in regard to my narrow takeaway, I had to address my set up and needed lag with the club to stop taking it too far in side, however I find incorporating the lag element affects my weight transfer and I still get a little stuck on the left side.
Where I did see imrovement towards the end of the day when I shortened my backswing there was no collapse of the left arm - maybe I need to work on hitting those abbreviated shots?

After accomplishing my success I went to the range 300 meters way and hit a few good shots and then deflated myself with driver.

I will get there Dariusz, it took 6 years to ruin my swing so I cannot expect to play like a Hogan after a week lol.

If what I have outline makes sense - can you suggest a a method where I can achieve the lag without feeling out of position.

Thanks again Mate - love your work!
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Tue 12:08, 07 Dec 2010 Back to top

I am very happy that you have found the info interesting and helpful. Believe me, there is no better satisfaction than to hear that you could be of real effective help.

As for lag - it is ONLY a physical phenomenon, nothing mystic, nothing one should worry about or work on specially. If a motion is being lead from the ground up (and it must be because one needs leverage that the friction can give to us all) the farther are body parts the more they lag (delay). Arms are distal parts of the body and they will delay automatically provided the sequence of events is not disrupted by a conscious action, e.g. aimed at choppoing at the ball from the top.
Do an experiment, John - start to turn around yourself back and forth and observe/feel how your arms start to delay in relation to your body without thinking about it. That's a pivot lag. Do another experiment - grab your golf club, lift it using your forearms and let your forearms fall down - your wrists start to react and deviate/flex because the clubhead mass is being delayed. That's your wrist lag.
Nothing poetic about it as some golf schools want to fool people around with.

Cheers


Last edited by dariusz on Tue 12:13, 07 Dec 2010; edited 2 times in total
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GolfZoner
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PostPosted: Tue 12:21, 07 Dec 2010 Back to top

O.K. D;so let me interpret this for my comprehension. I may be putting too much emphasis on the lag. So if I implement the correct movement to the backswing forget about the club and let it take it's course, assuming all that has done as your intstructions the lag will look after itself and width will be maintained?

Thanks
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Tue 12:43, 07 Dec 2010 Back to top

GolfZoner wrote:
O.K. D;so let me interpret this for my comprehension. I may be putting too much emphasis on the lag. So if I implement the correct movement to the backswing forget about the club and let it take it's course, assuming all that has done as your intstructions the lag will look after itself and width will be maintained?

Thanks


Yes, Sir. All conscious actions aimed at increasing/maintaining lag end with worsening effects. I am more than sure about it.

Cheers
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GolfZoner
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PostPosted: Tue 13:02, 07 Dec 2010 Back to top

O.K Thanks, can't be more succinct than that D.
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