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Mark G
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PostPosted: Mon 3:35, 05 Jul 2010 Back to top

Hi Dariusz and all

In starting to develop some of the moments outlined in your BTGS, I thought I'd start my own practice at the beginning with the forward press.

SPC Concept Part 3, Picture 1:

"Trigger compression: Rear knee and rear hip presses towards the target against a firm lead side creating the trigger compression aimed at creating optimal conditions for performing a once piece takeaway with a correct stable velocity and tempo".

From this I have also viewed the Youtube clips you provided on the subject, as well as looked at old Pros and their forward presses. From there I have played around with it myself. In doing so, I have considered the development of my own trigger compression against the principle behind the BTGC which is, as I understand it, to make movement automatic and in doing so work against the bodies natural limitation points.

I played around with pushing the right knee and hip laterally toward the target therefore triggering the backswing motion (clockwise motion of the rear leg (foot, ankle, knee, hip etc.)). I felt okay with this, but I was finding it made me sway a little, and was a little hard to coordinate the lateral push into a then rotary movement. I have since realised that it becomes much easier when you do this against a firm right side. But anyway it got me thinking about what would happen if I made the forward press a rotary type motion:

That is, rotating the knee/ankle/foot anti-clockwise to find it's limitation (brings the right hip forward to the target a little), which then triggers the clockwise movement into the backswing.

I started with this, as I said just to try and make the coordination easier, but I have found it also feels like it causes more 'limitation' therefore creating a larger trigger for the backswing proper as well.

I don't know if this is related, but I have noticed that Mr. Hogan's forward press appears a little less than others. One part of that may be that some players do not forward press against a firm lead side (which creates more lateral movement and less compression I would think). I also considered it may be because of the rear side forward press itself: certainly when I try both the 'lateral' option as well as the 'rotary' option, the rotary option gives a less pronounced look to it.

Anyway, before I get too carried away and into bad habits, I thought I would outline it in the hope to get your comments, feedback, and correction.

Thanks again,

Mark
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Mon 20:53, 05 Jul 2010 Back to top

Mark G wrote:
Hi Dariusz and all

In starting to develop some of the moments outlined in your BTGS, I thought I'd start my own practice at the beginning with the forward press.

SPC Concept Part 3, Picture 1:

"Trigger compression: Rear knee and rear hip presses towards the target against a firm lead side creating the trigger compression aimed at creating optimal conditions for performing a once piece takeaway with a correct stable velocity and tempo".

From this I have also viewed the Youtube clips you provided on the subject, as well as looked at old Pros and their forward presses. From there I have played around with it myself. In doing so, I have considered the development of my own trigger compression against the principle behind the BTGC which is, as I understand it, to make movement automatic and in doing so work against the bodies natural limitation points.

I played around with pushing the right knee and hip laterally toward the target therefore triggering the backswing motion (clockwise motion of the rear leg (foot, ankle, knee, hip etc.)). I felt okay with this, but I was finding it made me sway a little, and was a little hard to coordinate the lateral push into a then rotary movement. I have since realised that it becomes much easier when you do this against a firm right side. But anyway it got me thinking about what would happen if I made the forward press a rotary type motion:

That is, rotating the knee/ankle/foot anti-clockwise to find it's limitation (brings the right hip forward to the target a little), which then triggers the clockwise movement into the backswing.

I started with this, as I said just to try and make the coordination easier, but I have found it also feels like it causes more 'limitation' therefore creating a larger trigger for the backswing proper as well.

I don't know if this is related, but I have noticed that Mr. Hogan's forward press appears a little less than others. One part of that may be that some players do not forward press against a firm lead side (which creates more lateral movement and less compression I would think). I also considered it may be because of the rear side forward press itself: certainly when I try both the 'lateral' option as well as the 'rotary' option, the rotary option gives a less pronounced look to it.

Anyway, before I get too carried away and into bad habits, I thought I would outline it in the hope to get your comments, feedback, and correction.

Thanks again,

Mark


Mark, the firm lead side is more a general notion than a real wall. The goal is to limit the trigger and create a bouncing inertia that fluids the body into the backswing. Even if the limitation is being found, say, at the rear knee or rear ankle, it happens on its lead (targetwise) side when we look at the sagittal plane of a leg.
Moreover, as you have correctly mentioned, some of the best ballstrikers did it via pushing the rear side (ankle, knee, hip) targetwise - Hogan or Trevino while some used a more rotary motion - say, Snead or Byrd and while others could just bend the rear knee inwards almost lifting the rear heel up - Nelson.

Certainly, it was easier or better said, more natural for Hogan to use a smaller amount of the trigger compression since his stance was the most diagonal of all players. I am of the opinion that the more diagonality the stance has a simple targetwise pressing has a lot of rotary element in it per se.

I would toy with all possible combinations (especially, when you touch the Diagonal Stance concept a bit lateron). The most important is the trigger compression's blessing effect on the swing motion (plane, rhythm and tempo).

Cheers
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Mark G
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PostPosted: Tue 3:33, 06 Jul 2010 Back to top

Thanks again Dariusz

I hadn't considered it, but it's interesting, as you say, that the more diagonal the stance the more rotary the forward becomes somewhat by default.

When going through all of the possibilities I tend to like making the trigger a rotary type motion...a somewhat smaller 'opposite' version of the clockwise backswing motion itself. Not only does it create the compression we are looking for, but it seems to set me up naturally to make the backswing leg rotary motion.

Anyway, there's definitely a lot in favour of a forward press which makes you think why it doesn't rate more of a mention in instruction generally....almost all of the greats from around Mr. Hogan's era seemed to have one at least. Very interesting.

Mark
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Tue 19:23, 06 Jul 2010 Back to top

It is because the diagonality of the stance (closed feet, open hips, flared lead foot) introduces the rotary element to the body thanks to lack of parallel relationship between elements. When Hogan pushed his rear knee forward to initiate the motion it made the hips rotate instead sway. It is very visible on the Trigger Compression YouTube video while watching Hogan's swing without seeing his knees and feet (0:44 - 0:46).

Cheers

P.S. As per your last sentence - it is probably because today's instruction put very little squeeze at big picture of physics and anatomy. They prefer to speak about such small picture details that I often pity students and readers of posts on some other fora. This is, IMO, why the average HCP has not dropped at all despite modern era possibilities. The future of golf instruction is biokinetics, I strongly believe in such a scenario.
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Fri 21:13, 10 Apr 2015 Back to top

Some would say it is not worth to mention it, especially before the tournament ends (The 2015 Masters) -- however, look how this young fellow starts the motion and how it is similar to what great ballstrikers did...TRIGGER COMPRESSION or "forward press". I do not know if he's going to win the tournament and I do not care, but -- if he wins it many the so-called "experts" start to praise and analyse his swing while forgetting about such a vital aspect. You'll remember my words.
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Mon 11:47, 22 Jun 2015 Back to top

Well, I was not wrong. The lad won second major in a row and is on his way to tie the Hogan historical record of winning the Masters and two the Opens...yet, noone has paid slightest attention to such a crucial element of the swing that settles everything from sequencing to tempo.

Best,
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Thu 12:51, 16 Jul 2015 Back to top

I have paid more attention to the type of trigger compression that Spieth uses and here are my thoughts:
-- since the diagonality of his stance is close to zero, the trigger compression should be more rotary (which it is); Spieth's type is close to Snead's and Byrd's;
-- the longer the club is his trigger compression becomes less rotary and more linear; it is again how it should be since a. the stance is more diagonal with longer clubs and b. more in-to-out path is going to be promoted.

Take a look:

Image

Image


Anyhow, I wish him a very good luck on St.Andrews this week !
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