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vision54
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PostPosted: Sun 22:14, 24 Feb 2013 Back to top

Hi Darius
So glad you responded because this should b e a very active blog given what you have contributed to the swing...I don't understand why this site isn't incredibly active....maybe it just needs sometime to catch on....now I understand why Hogan had an extra spike on his right shoe ...up to now I always knew that the right knee was supposed to be cantered in at set up but did not know that Hogan pre-torqued his right ankle/femur/knee CW...so essentially it appears that there are opposing forces throughout the swing.....I love it....it takes out all the loose unnecessary motion...so the stance is closed but the hips are open; the shoulders are parallel with the trigger following the stance line...the left hand is neutral to strong while the right hand is weak ( this is critical)....while the right foot is back, the ankle-knee is torqued CW.....

Hogans backswing never rose above his shoulder line...is this biokinetically correct? I love Sneads first move down(moving his left knee in a semi-circle) and then snapping his left leg back and behind his left hip....

Snead was also known to have the deepest turn of his right shoulder straight back and your set-up with the trigger produces this for me...pulling the right side but especially the right shoulder straight back is very natural so I'm going to assume it is biokinetically correct.

Why do you advocate the right foot looking straight ahead and not with a slight turn out?

Does the closed set-up etc apply to the short game as well?

Regards
Peter
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vision54
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PostPosted: Sun 23:29, 24 Feb 2013 Back to top

Hi Dariusz
I was watching the Accenture today and noticed that Mat Kutcher brings the club back to shoulder line and no more....most pros I see bring the club well above the shoulders....tomorrow to the range to practice these new ideas. Can't wait Smile

Peter
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Sun 23:32, 24 Feb 2013 Back to top

Hi Peter,

Let me retort to some of points from your good post.

Quote:
So glad you responded because this should b e a very active blog given what you have contributed to the swing...I don't understand why this site isn't incredibly active....maybe it just needs sometime to catch on...


Well, it is not my role to estimate it. I am always trying to be very clear and illustrative. Perhaps people just do not need to know further details except the very concept. Besides, lots of discussion is going on YT under my vids. This forum is just for a more enquiriing and demanding guys who want to know more.




Quote:
now I understand why Hogan had an extra spike on his right shoe ...up to now I always knew that the right knee was supposed to be cantered in at set up but did not know that Hogan pre-torqued his right ankle/femur/knee CW...so essentially it appears that there are opposing forces throughout the swing.....I love it....it takes out all the loose unnecessary motion...so the stance is closed but the hips are open; the shoulders are parallel with the trigger following the stance line...the left hand is neutral to strong while the right hand is weak ( this is critical)....while the right foot is back, the ankle-knee is torqued CW.....


Vey cleverly stated. I will say only this -- if we setup the way there are no other options left (with a hard structure presets), there are no physical possibilities to screw a given part of the motion and I do not need to learn or to work on anything in this section of the overall motion.
In short -- if there are options, there are possibilities; if there are no options but one, there are no possibilities and the result is being forced. The trick is to force a desirable result.
The beautuy of the theory of limitations.



Quote:
Hogans backswing never rose above his shoulder line...is this biokinetically correct?


Yes, it is. It guarantees that the necessary change of planes is not substantial. However, those who wants to maximize power should consider more upright backswing. Hogan was never so talented as Snead was. I think he chose it deliberately knowing that he's long enough.


Quote:
Snead was also known to have the deepest turn of his right shoulder straight back and your set-up with the trigger produces this for me...pulling the right side but especially the right shoulder straight back is very natural so I'm going to assume it is biokinetically correct.


Yes, of course it is.

Quote:
Why do you advocate the right foot looking straight ahead and not with a slight turn out?


Actually, because it is great to have a clear concept of how stance can help to automate further biophysical events in the motion. In reality, it is a rare thing that people are so flexible in pelvic area as Hogan was, therefore, slightly flared out rear foot is a better option for most people. However, the danger is if flaring it makes the preset impossible, which ruins the cascade of events.
It is a personal thing. Start with perpendicular and experiment with different flaring out. You'll find the best way for you very quickly.

Quote:
Does the closed set-up etc apply to the short game as well?


Yes, in my case. Perhaps except less than half-shots. At least in my case, although the concept of the diagonal stance refers to the full swing. I am no expert in short game.

Cheers
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vision54
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PostPosted: Mon 20:28, 25 Feb 2013 Back to top

Hi Dariusz:

Went to the range and have a few questions....Does the compression trigger work on a diagonal, maybe parallel to the toe line?

Do we torque the right ankle/knee, CW or CCW? I ask because at the range I totally forgot and then thought about you being on the SITD site and then thought about Sevam's belief to screw the right foot CW into the dirt....at that point was totally confused.

Thanks much


Peter
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Mon 22:52, 25 Feb 2013 Back to top

Peter,

Preset consists of a clockwise turn of the rear ankle and knee joints without changing the rear foot square to the target line position till the limit. Turning the rear heel outwards first (this makes the foot perpendicular to the target) and then turning out both joints. Like one wants to bring your rear heel inwards again, which won't happen because of shear forces between the foot and the ground.

Ideally, the trigger compression is being done on a slight arc, since it induces rotation instead linear movement. I think the best trigger press had Snead.
However, even the simplest one a'la Player (kicking in the knee joint) is better than none.

Cheers
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vision54
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PostPosted: Tue 3:28, 26 Feb 2013 Back to top

Hi Dariusz
Thanks for validating....

I was watching the EEP videos....is there a way to practice that...to make sure the club is in line with the trailing forearm?

Much appreciated
Peter
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Tue 10:57, 26 Feb 2013 Back to top

vision54 wrote:
I was watching the EEP videos....is there a way to practice that...to make sure the club is in line with the trailing forearm?


No, since it would be a consciously induced drill. Just videotape yourself from time to time in an normal action from DTL.

Cheers
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vision54
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PostPosted: Tue 20:07, 26 Feb 2013 Back to top

Hi Dariusz:

I went to the range today and was working on different techniques typical of my practice sessions.After awhile I looked over my Biokinetic notes and spent the rest of my time with your techniques. During my earlier time I was fairly erratic, missing my target enough to know that I was off....but after implementing Biokinetics I was direct on target...trajectory, impact were all improved...do you test your theory or work on it or is it a done deal? I cannot find any weaknesses in Biokinetic theory ...but can it really be this simple?? Maybe once you know what to do all that is left is the execution. In any event, thank you...

Peter
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Tue 21:04, 26 Feb 2013 Back to top

vision54 wrote:
Hi Dariusz:

I went to the range today and was working on different techniques typical of my practice sessions.After awhile I looked over my Biokinetic notes and spent the rest of my time with your techniques. During my earlier time I was fairly erratic, missing my target enough to know that I was off....but after implementing Biokinetics I was direct on target...trajectory, impact were all improved...do you test your theory or work on it or is it a done deal? I cannot find any weaknesses in Biokinetic theory ...but can it really be this simple?? Maybe once you know what to do all that is left is the execution. In any event, thank you...

Peter


Peter,

It is my genuine pleasure. Enjoy golf more now.

I am at your disposal anytime.

Cheers

P.S. Yes, IMO it is that simple.
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vision54
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PostPosted: Wed 0:58, 27 Feb 2013 Back to top

Hi Dariusz
I was reading a few posts and one person spoke about the importance of the right elbow and that you were the only person who really understands Hogan. What am I missing with the right elbow?
Did you figure out Hogans swing and is that what Biokinetics is about?

Peter
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Wed 7:22, 27 Feb 2013 Back to top

Peter,

No, I cannot say I have figured Hogan's swing. I just observed some things and formulated them totally independent of golf instruction cannons. You see, golf instruction, no matter if its classic or TGM or whomever, is full of silly absolutes. Either this or that procedures which is just childish.

The stuff about the rear elbow about which the forumer said is here, explained in a 2-minutes short clip and a few words as a description:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C5_Dkim3p0

Noone was able to duplicate it so perfectly as post-secret Hogan ever. The closest today is Furyk, but the difference is visible. In order to be another Hogan your RoM of shoulder joint should be enormous, letting your very elbow joint alone go forward substantially till the limit in the shoulder joint without letting hands go much forward, so that it can be left on the rear hip and pivot together with the hip joint later on allowing for a whip of rear forearm in line with the shaft.
Other mortals (including Furyk) must rely on a constant movement of the rear elbow joint which decreases both stability and power.

Do not deal with it, it's a waste of time. It's just an explanation of an unattainable Smile

Cheers
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vision54
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PostPosted: Wed 19:37, 27 Feb 2013 Back to top

Hi Dariusz:
Well, I don't know how you did it but you have solved the golf swing for me. Granted I have to do a little fine tuning for my particular body type etc BUT the basics are the basics. I am really amazed and impressed. I have studied and studied with many fine players and teachers and this is the first time that I am hitting this consistently. Generally my dispersions are much greater-probably the best way to measure...with your teachings my shots have the same trajectory, at least as far, and a smaller dispersion. I experienced this the first time but felt like this was just another style, but every time I returned my results were vastly improved. Today answered all (I think) questions. If I hit poorly it was because I swayed too much....as long as I stayed back my shots were on a string. My only problem is that there is nothing left to read regarding golf instruction.
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vision54
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PostPosted: Wed 19:59, 27 Feb 2013 Back to top

Hi Dariusz:
So regarding the EEP, the first move down is with the rear elbow but only to the right hip and no further...once it has reached the trailing hip the entire body elbow etc moves together to the finish???

That doesn't seem to be that difficult....maybe because I haven't tried it...Smile
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Wed 21:14, 27 Feb 2013 Back to top

vision54 wrote:
Hi Dariusz:
Well, I don't know how you did it but you have solved the golf swing for me. Granted I have to do a little fine tuning for my particular body type etc BUT the basics are the basics. I am really amazed and impressed. I have studied and studied with many fine players and teachers and this is the first time that I am hitting this consistently. Generally my dispersions are much greater-probably the best way to measure...with your teachings my shots have the same trajectory, at least as far, and a smaller dispersion. I experienced this the first time but felt like this was just another style, but every time I returned my results were vastly improved. Today answered all (I think) questions. If I hit poorly it was because I swayed too much....as long as I stayed back my shots were on a string. My only problem is that there is nothing left to read regarding golf instruction.


Peter,
I am happy to hear it. Definitely it's only a biokinetic basis. The rest, i.e. tuning, belongs to a player. In your case, I am quiet since you're already a very accomplished golfer.

Cheers
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Wed 21:22, 27 Feb 2013 Back to top

vision54 wrote:
Hi Dariusz:
So regarding the EEP, the first move down is with the rear elbow but only to the right hip and no further...once it has reached the trailing hip the entire body elbow etc moves together to the finish???

That doesn't seem to be that difficult....maybe because I haven't tried it...Smile


Yes. Watch these two GIFs carefully (first and second part) and while thinking about it see how optimal is such a scenario for both powering as well as subduing the distal limbs to the main body -- simply ingenious:

Image

Image

The problem is one's body ability. My advice -- do not toy with it too much. The awareness of the concept is enough for your subconscious mind. Remember that even your subconscious won't add RoM to your joints.

Cheers
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