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JimmyD
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PostPosted: Sat 14:40, 07 Apr 2012 Back to top

I have been trying to develop a "repeatable" swing for almost 20 years. I have read and studied many books, videos, etc. in pursuit of a "series of movements" which would eliminate my most serious flaw ... hitting behind the ball. I studied and tried to incorporate the Mike Austin swing for about 4 years ... all to no avail.

I came across Darius' Biokinectic Golf Swing Theory site via a Google search earlier this week ... the first blog post I read was the post on the Diagonal Stance. It was as if my intuition started to scream at me ... this is it!! I read the entirety of the blog within the next day or so ... I could not stop !!

Yesterday was the first chance I had to try Darius' principles and techniques out on the driving range. It felt so awkward at first ... but ... I hit the first 20 balls without hitting behind a single one. I kid you not ... I almost had tears streaming down my face.

I hit about 100 balls ... I hit behind maybe 3 or 4 ... but I know it was because I had a "lapse in concentration' ... the swing is not yet "automatic".

I joined this forum just so I could thank Darius in writing, as it were. Darius, you have given me a "framework" ... a golf swing ... I thank you most sincerely and look forward to learning more on this forum.

Jimmy D.
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Rock chalk
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PostPosted: Sat 18:37, 07 Apr 2012 Back to top

Jimmy, I have had the same experience over the past week. I have not studied anyone who seems to grasp the essence of Hogan like Dariusz. I am a pretty decent player with single digit handicap but find myself purely hitting shots I have never experienced using this technique. The presetting of the rear side ankle and knee and the rear elbow together with the grip and diagonal stance are pure genius and fit perfectly with what you observe with Hogan. Nobody but Dariusz seems to get this right. The pre trigger compression is an incredible start to a beautiful takeaway as well. I can't wait until this is automated and I can just set the shoulder alignment and hit the shot. I am very grateful to you Dariusz.
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JimmyD
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PostPosted: Sun 0:07, 08 Apr 2012 Back to top

Rock chalk wrote:
Jimmy, I have had the same experience over the past week. I have not studied anyone who seems to grasp the essence of Hogan like Dariusz. I am a pretty decent player with single digit handicap but find myself purely hitting shots I have never experienced using this technique. The presetting of the rear side ankle and knee and the rear elbow together with the grip and diagonal stance are pure genius and fit perfectly with what you observe with Hogan. Nobody but Dariusz seems to get this right. The pre trigger compression is an incredible start to a beautiful takeaway as well. I can't wait until this is automated and I can just set the shoulder alignment and hit the shot. I am very grateful to you Dariusz.


Rock Chalk ... hey man, hat's off to Bill Self and the Jayhawks ... that was a hell of a run ! My old alma mater, NC State, gave you guys a good game ... and I was glad to see you spank the Tar Heels !

But I digress ... went back to the driving range today ... I didn't hit the ball as well as I did yesterday ... I started to hit behind it again. I think that one of my big problems is this ... for 20 years my swing has been primarily "shoulders and arms" ... my lower body has been used in a "support" role. I know that's bad and that it's something I need to change if I'm going to be able make full use of Dariusz' principles ... it's just something I haven't got ingrained into my motion, yet. I really have to concentrate to "lead the downswing" with the legd and hips. However, when I do ... I usually hit it clean ... most satisfying.

I believe in Dariusz' swing ... it makes just too muxh sense !!! I'm going to do whatever it takes to get this down. Another potential problem I have is that I'm a big guy ... 6'3" and 315 lbs. ... a bit too big belly ... and "bird legs".

If you're a single digit handicapper, I won't waste your time by trying to hook up with you to play ... but one of these days I might try to get a lesson or two from you ... it sounds like we live in the same general vicinity.

Thanks,
Jimmy D.
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Rock chalk
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PostPosted: Sun 0:59, 08 Apr 2012 Back to top

Hi Jimmy. This bball season was so satisfying. We were in a down year for talent overall, not so much in the starting five but our first two off the bench were basically walkons. Totally exceeded expectations and enjoyed the ride. Your team was formidable and fun to watch as well. Yes it is always nice to beat Roy and the heels. Stick with the swing change. If you are hitting behind it try to really focus on the shift of your center of gravity at transition. Make sure your right leg is preset for torque and try to raise left heel during backswing. This helps the shift naturally to your left side. In this position you should just rotate and you will compress the ball at the ball rather than behind it. It sounds like you are just not getting your weight to the left through this shift. It feels like you are sliding or swaying to the left but this is what needs to happen. Good luck. Also remember to keep a relatively flat shoulder turn just like Dariusz describes, left arm plane no higher than shoulder plane. Take care Jimmy.
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Sun 10:37, 08 Apr 2012 Back to top

Gents, it is my genuine pleasure that I could be of some help. Thank you very much for your kind words.

Please do not hesitate to ask if there is something I can be of further help.

Happy Easter !
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JimmyD
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PostPosted: Sun 11:38, 08 Apr 2012 Back to top

dariusz wrote:
Gents, it is my genuine pleasure that I could be of some help. Thank you very much for your kind words.

Please do not hesitate to ask if there is something I can be of further help.

Happy Easter !


Hi Dariusz ... if that avatar on your post is you, then it looks like you and I are physically built similarly ... which may be a great thing for me when I ask you questions !! As I was telling Rock Chalk, after my initial success with the BGST principaled swing, I'm starting to hit "behind" the ball again ... not as drastically as before, but I think I have not yet developed a good transition sequence. I must admit that I don't think I was using the compression trigger to start my backswing ... another holdover bad habit perhaps.

I do think I'm setting up in the diagonal stance correctly, but I'm wondering whether or not I should be feeling a "continual" resistance in my trail leg during the backswing (I'm left handed). Rock Chalk seemed to put some emphasis on letting the lead heel come off of the ground during the backswing ... I wasn't doing that either ... perhaps the raising of the lead heel is a natural by-product of a well executed "rotary" hip turn.

My thoughts are a bit dis-jointed this morning ... it's 5:30 AM and I haven't had enough coffee yet ...
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Sun 15:04, 08 Apr 2012 Back to top

Hello Jimmy,
Yep, that's me on the avatar, unfortunately Razz Weighting 30 kgs too much, I am afraid.

Without seeing your swing -- if there are differences in reaching the lead side vertical axis of rotation, it means -- what you correctly spotted on -- that the linear part of the shift (that's automated thanks to presets and the diagonal stance which firms the rear side) is not exactly the same.
I would experiment with the following things:
1. different amount of rear foot position (starting from flared out ca.20 degrees ending at exactly perpendicular to the target line);
2. different 'strength' of rear ankle/knee joints preset.
You would need a help of the rear side of your body and horizontally oriented forces and torques. Building the firm rear side from the ground up and letting the motion happen sequentially also from the ground up will automate totally the linear motion in the pelvis area. The rear hip joint will go where the rear femur will lead it. Since the rotational RoM of ankle joint is much smaller of that of knee joint and the latter is much smaller that this of hip joint, etc. - the sequentiality of reaction for torques is established perfectly from the ground up without leaving any other option left. Consequently, the rotational part is just a natural consequence of the end of linear part since, again, there is no other option left for a biped. As someone (probably Knudson or Trevino) wisely said "lateral shift causes rotation" - which is very true.

What Rock said is also very important. According to the SPC concept in the backswing phase the lead side is passive and the knee bends in while the lead heel lifts up and rolls to the inside; then the linear part in the hips occurs that forces the body to establish the new downswing vertical axis of rotation; the lead heel and mid-foot press the ground again very firmly (since all the dynamic weight is already transferred under the ankle joint) causing the lead knee rotating outwards - which is very easy since the lead side is now active. Then, when the rotational limit of the lead ankle and knee exhauts, the lead leg starts to straighten and the lead foot starts to flare out (for the weight vector is close to the heel and there is no more RoM in the joints for rotation without rotating the whole leg as an unit).
Shortly -- your lead side should be passive during the takeaway/backswing phase and inertial -- certainly not giving any resistance to the rear side that leads the motion there.

Cheers
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JimmyD
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PostPosted: Tue 11:46, 10 Apr 2012 Back to top

Dariusz,

I was re-reading parts of your blog last night ... I came across the phrase "linear before rotational" ... a light bulb lit up my head ... and I bet I want to keep the "torso ... to include shoulders, arms, hands" at backswing stop position during "linear" so that "rotational" forces everything down and around ...
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Tue 17:04, 10 Apr 2012 Back to top

JimmyD wrote:
Dariusz,

I was re-reading parts of your blog last night ... I came across the phrase "linear before rotational" ... a light bulb lit up my head ... and I bet I want to keep the "torso ... to include shoulders, arms, hands" at backswing stop position during "linear" so that "rotational" forces everything down and around ...


Jimmy, yes Sir.
I should sometimes owe apologies for my English since doing mental shortcuts from Polish often forget to put some important emphasis.

The best advice in case of doubts (if there is nobody there to answer) always is to confront words with swings of the greatest ballstrikers and observe what happens in crucial points of the body, i.e. ankles, knees, hips, shoulder girdle and head. It happened not only once that students of my theories pointed out some important things that I did not notice myself.

Cheers
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JimmyD
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PostPosted: Sat 22:46, 05 Jan 2013 Back to top

Hi Dariusz,

Long time, no chat !!! I hope you and your family have a wonderful New Year!

Since I last "conversed" with you, I have been pretty successful incoporating the diagonal stance into my swing. It has helped me immensely. However, I still have a tendency to hit behind the ball ... and ... now I think I may have a better clue as to "why".

I periodically re-read your blog posts ... there is no end of "hidden jewels" in those posts. My head lit up when I read the following excerpt from your "Common Denominators for the Best Ballstrikers in the History of the Game. Part 2."

"Probably this is one of main reasons why the most consistent ballstrikers were elbow planers with their rear forearm supporting the shaft and rear humerus tight to the body. Other reason was that their pivot was great enough to let the above occur. It requires the rear elbow joint be on the rear hip at impact. The more the elbow goes in front of the body the worse for the whole motion. People often say "stuck" incorrectly.The rule of thumb is -- the stronger the pivot is the more open is main body at impact (hips more, shoulder girldle less of course due to sequentiality) and the more is the lead arm pinned accross the chest while the rear elbow close to the rear hip."

The statements I "bolded" above may well be the most profound statements about the golf swing I have read to date !!

So ... I'm now thinking the following;

If one could "attach" the trail elbow to the trail hip during the backswing ... it would be ideal. Keeping that "vision" in mind, we could say that the "lateral" portion of the downswing pivot positions the "trail hip and trail elbow attachment" to a position ... equal to or slightly in front of the ball ... where it becomes a fulcrum, around which the "roational" part of the pivot powers the clubhead.

What do you think, Dariusz ?

Thanks,
Jimmy D.
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Sun 20:41, 06 Jan 2013 Back to top

Hello Jimmy,

Great to hear from you and I also do hope you have a wonderful holidays and the beginning of the New Year. All the best to you and your close ones !

I agree wholeheartedly with your way of thinking with a slight modification.
The axis of rotation, after establishing the weight shift necessary for a biped, goes through the mid body (from the front view -- the sagittal plane axis). It cannot go exactly through the point you described (rear hip/rear elbow) as well as cannot go exactly through the point described by TGM-oriented sources, i.e. lead shoulder joint.
If we look closely, both these points turn around a common axis in between. Both points are crucial, however. IMO, the stability between these two points guarantees extreme control and continuous rotation. Watch this two clips of Hogan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AmPuzgBXEM

As you can see, the stability is being achieved via establishing stability between both humera and the main body. The longer this period lasts the better. Unfortunately, if we want to hit the ball with a sufficient power, we have to detach humera from the body (between mid backswing and mid downswing) and the trick (i.e. how to be closer to your ideal of having the rear elbow at your rear hip all the time) is low plane motion followed by reaching elbow plane as soon as possible.

Cheers
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JimmyD
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PostPosted: Mon 1:51, 07 Jan 2013 Back to top

Dariusz My Man,

Thanks for the reply ... I understand what you're saying ... of course the main axis of rotation goes down through the body ... but I may need some clarification on what you said in your blog post ;

It requires the rear elbow joint be on the rear hip at impact. The more the elbow goes in front of the body the worse for the whole motion.

So ... I guess the question is ... "Where is the trail hip at impact ?" In my thinking, it would have to be at least pointing at, or be slightly ahead of the ball ... I'm thinking that the trail hip and trail elbow are both pretty much "in line" on the transverse and coronal planes at impact.

Thanks for your time ... I really appreciate it !!!

Jimmy D.
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Mon 8:49, 07 Jan 2013 Back to top

JimmyD wrote:
It requires the rear elbow joint be on the rear hip at impact. The more the elbow goes in front of the body the worse for the whole motion.

So ... I guess the question is ... "Where is the trail hip at impact ?" In my thinking, it would have to be at least pointing at, or be slightly ahead of the ball ... I'm thinking that the trail hip and trail elbow are both pretty much "in line" on the transverse and coronal planes at impact.


Ahead the ball is an exaggeration, Jimmy, but saying that both rear hip as well as rear elbow trying to cover the ball together with impact is a great thought.

Cheers
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vision54
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PostPosted: Sat 23:03, 23 Feb 2013 Back to top

Hi Darius
I stumbled upon your site via SITD and happy I did. I play to a 4 index but struggle maintaining it mostly due to my understanding of the golf swing....perhaps until now...recentlyi have been paying close attention to Sam Snead and was particularly impressed with his closed stance, his trigger compression and his left knee beginning the downswing....your teaching fits in perfectly and I think adds to overall understanding. Thank you for that. I totally feel the 'automatic' DS movement due to the diagonal stance and the grip. I also follow Martin Ayers and he also has a stronger/neutral left thumb and a weaker right.. When you speak about the right ankle/knee/ hip are you suggesting that unit to be directed target ward? Also, do you want the shoulders parallel to the ball to target line or more closed?

Thanks much
Peter
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dariusz
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PostPosted: Sun 15:39, 24 Feb 2013 Back to top

Hello Peter and a warm welcome to the forum !

I am glad you found my concepts helpful. I am also glad you mentioned Snead, whose swing is really top of all swing alongside with 3 maybe four more.

Answering your questions now:

Quote:
When you speak about the right ankle/knee/ hip are you suggesting that unit to be directed target ward?


I assume you mean at address -- if yes, I recommend presets of both ankle and knee joints of the rear leg so that the rotational RoM in both are already met at setup and that they create necessary torque/resistance to automate the transition. I never would like to preset hip joint because it is practically impossible without destroying presets of lower two joints. What I prescribe, however, is just creating a sort of non-joint torque between thighs and pelvis -- the diagonal stance concept requires closed position of feet while open position of pelvis. This sort of offsets lack of any pretorque in the rear hip area.
The act of presetting both ankle and knee is being shown here (please read the description of the vid):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtHOmaB5fLg

Quote:
Also, do you want the shoulders parallel to the ball to target line or more closed?


I'll leave it as a matter of choice for a player depending on a shot he/she wants to play and impact of one's eyedness. Ideally, with an ambidextrous person trying to play a straight shot, clavicles/shoulders should be parallel at setup.

Cheers
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